Replies to Change in Handbook 1

http://ldsmag.com/sustaining-the-brethren-a-modern-example-of-thoughtful-discipleship/?fb_action_ids=10206862442336408&fb_action_types=og.likes&fb_ref=.VlNQr9uRJtD.like


We believe that sex is a good thing -- that between husband and wife. . . .

We believe that chastity is a thing -- that God wants us to avoid premarital and extra marital sex --  and he defines marriage as begin between a man and a woman.

We believe that families are eternal.

We believe that children are a blessing from god, that they are born innocent
We believe that little children are covered under the Atonement of Jesus Christ, as are all those who do not have the means or maturity to consent to baptism  -- That they do not have to be baptized in order to return to the presence of God.

We believe that there is right and wrong, and that men and women have agency and can choose between them.  We are not forced by our weaknesses or our tendencies to act. We choose.

We believe that God loves all of His children.  Nevertheless. ..  .

We do not believe that watering down God's commandments is helpful to his children.

We believe in a merciful God.  We believe in a just God.



http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865640156/What-it-feels-like-to-be-a-Mormon-apologist.html?pg=all




Responses to change in handbook #1

http://lds.net/blog/buzz/lds-news/myths-on-new-mormons-and-gays-policy/




http://wellbehavedmormonwoman.blogspot.com/2015/11/response-to-new-church-policy-gay-marriage-children-baptism.html?m=1




http://www.patheos.com/blogs/blairvandyke/2015/11/ssm-conservative-mormons-dont-you-dare/




http://middleagedmormonman.com/home/2015/11/church-announcements-two-wolves/




http://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeterson/2015/11/two-items-relevant-to-the-new-policy-on-children-of-same-sex-couples-and-five-comments.html?ref_widget=popular&ref_blog=blairvandyke&ref_post=ssm-conservative-mormons-dont-you-dare




legal, but not doctrinal

apostasy -- ongoing rebellion --

consent -- grant your consent to be a member of the church

Jesus will cover you.

growing up in an environment of apostasy -- not chance of proper consent
Responses to change in handbook #1
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/blairvandyke/2015/11/ssm-policy-employed-exceptional-faith-exercised/

http://thesumofsarcasm.blogspot.com/2015/11/why-lds-churchs-latest-policy-is.html

https://brianmickelson.wordpress.com/2015/11/06/my-experience-with-an-update-in-church-policy/

http://lds.net/blog/buzz/lds-news/myths-on-new-mormons-and-gays-policy/

http://wellbehavedmormonwoman.blogspot.com/2015/11/response-to-new-church-policy-gay-marriage-children-baptism.html?m=1

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/blairvandyke/2015/11/ssm-conservative-mormons-dont-you-dare/

http://middleagedmormonman.com/home/2015/11/church-announcements-two-wolves/

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeterson/2015/11/two-items-relevant-to-the-new-policy-on-children-of-same-sex-couples-and-five-comments.html?ref_widget=popular&ref_blog=blairvandyke&ref_post=ssm-conservative-mormons-dont-you-dare

http://gaymormonguy.blogspot.com/2015/11/waiting-on-lord-same-sex-adoption.html

Blair Van Dyke was mentioned in a post.

Paul Madsen shared Dave Samuel Thompson'spost.

4 hrs · 

To Christopher Wallace Degn and Blair Van Dyke

Dave Samuel Thompson

November 5 at 11:50pm · Edited · 

Dear Everyone Troubled By The Latest Church Announcement:

Hi. I'm Dave. I'm an rm. I'm gay. And I have no problem with this latest development. And here is why you shouldn't either.

The Church, by and large, is an organization which has rigid rules and regulations for membership. Granted, nobody on the earth today can live up to those regulations by any means, but that is beside the point. What they want everyone to do is work their absolute hardest to achieve perfection. If you make a mistake, fix it and work your hardest to never do it again. Simple as that.

The issue that arises here stems from the fact that there are individuals who are different. We are gay. Or, as the church would put it, we experience same gender attraction. The official stance from the church regarding this attraction includes the following statement. "The attraction itself is not a sin, but acting on it is. Even though individuals do not choose to have such attractions, they do choose how to respond to them." (See mormonsandgays.org for further detail.) That fact is an absolute. It is a natural occurrence and, as Elder Holland so eloquently taught us in this last conference, we should not expect it to miraculously change, because it won't. According to the church, we all have our own trials, and it is up to us to make decisions regarding them, no matter how difficult those decisions may be.

As stated above, acting on this attraction is a sin. Just as if you were to go and get drunk, or stab someone, or steal something, or take the Lord's name in vain. Thus, if there are two gay individuals who decide to go against the commandments of the church and get married, they are found to be living in sin.

Now, I don't want you to be thinking that I agree with this. I fully support gay marriage and believe that if two individuals truly love each other nobody should stand in their way of joining together. But an organization does not have to support this, regardless of whether or not you wish it would. At the end of the day the church believes it is wrong, and so they can issue religious legislation regarding their belief system as they see fit, regardless of public opinion.

Which brings us to the announcement today. If you are living in a same gender, or homosexual relationship, you are living in direct opposition to the teachings of the church, or to use a religious term, apostasy. Which is why you really shouldn't be surprised by the other announcement by the church. They came out and said apostasy is apostasy. They aren't going to sugar coat the fact that in their eyes you are living in blatant disregard to the laws set forth before the formation of the world by God himself. They aren't okay with that. So you shouldn't be surprised when they say something about it that makes ya feel just a little bit icky. But if you are living that way, you think that they shouldn't be so harsh about it. And more than likely, if you have children, natural or adopted, they will be brought up believing that is not an issue.

However, to the church it is. As a missionary we were cautioned against teaching individuals whose parents were not members of the church because it is often very difficult for them to remain active. There were many amazing individuals who were able to join the church and stay active, but others fell away because of little support. This is issue number one.

The larger problem the church has is children being reared in a household that is in direct opposition to their teachings. They would be taught that having two mommies or two daddies is okay. Which it is, but not to the church. Thus the church would want to wait until they were more mature and able to cognitively and spiritually understand the situation before they make covenants, or promises, binding them to the religion.

And yes, they would want them to denounce their parents relationship as sin. Does that sound awful and terrible? Yes it does, but the organization doesn't bow to the whims of man, it is governed by a more powerful being that makes the rules. Recognizing someone is committing a sin doesn't mean you are condemning that individual. Many people I met on my mission had issues with those mandates set down by the church. We helped them to understand why that is an issue. The church doesn't want these children to damn their parents to hell and never associate with them again, they want them to recognize that their lifestyle is not in the boundaries that they believe the Lord has set.

This doesn't, however, exclude these children from participation in the church. They can still worship, partake of the sacrament, pray in meetings, participate in activities, etc.

Some will say this keeps them from participating in sacred ordinances that many other youth have privilege to take part. My experience shows that if the testimony of that individual is strong enough and their desire great enough to follow in the ways of the church, that time won't matter.

A very similar policy is in place for those individuals coming from an FLDS background. The church wants those children to have developed a testimony of the truthfulness of the gospel on their own and wants them to understand why the situation they are coming from is not correct in their eyes.

In summation, sin to the church is sin, and there isn't anything you can do to change that. It isn't a very happy realization, but it was never meant to be. Those who choose to walk the path of true discipleship were never told it would be easy, only that enduring to the end would be worth the effort.

Now I am far from perfect. I know I have done things and made decisions that are against what this organization would have me do, so I cannot ask them to look away while I just do what I want. It isn't right, it isn't just, and that will never change.

So love your neighbors, but please don't shove your religion down their throat. God has a plan for everyone. For some that is in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. For others it isn't. Learn to accept that as a reality. Don't condemn someone for leaving. Love them the way you would want them to love you. If an organization seems too harsh for you either change your ways to match its ways or don't, but don't fight against it.

That's all for now because I need to go to bed.

Jason Wesley Buonforte

November 6 at 3:58am · Edited · 

Hey all you beautiful uninformed people who are making a big deal out of nothing but I love you anyway. READ THIS and then Shut up. 😘

There have been a lot of posts about the recent LDS news regarding children of same sex marriages and also same sex marriages being viewed as apostasy. I'm sorry to add to those posts filling up your newsfeed but as a gay man who does not feel victimized by this decision I feel the need to share my side. I'm confused by a few things. First off, why is everyone so surprised! The church has never pretended to be anything other than exactly what it is. Their stance on same sex marriages has never changed. I also don't understand how this affects about half of the people posting about it. Over half the people posting about it are not members of the church or don't believe in the LDS church to begin with. How does this decision in anyway affect you. If you are a gay couple, were you really going to send your child to an LDS church to begin with? If you are an active LDS member posting, again, why are you so surprised!!! If you truly believe in your church, then you believe that the prophet is a prophet of God who speaks directly to him. If this is you... then have some faith and then be quiet. If you disagree with this view on same sex marriage, then by all means just choose another church. No one is forcing you to stay. I guess being from South Carolina I get confused when people act like the Mormon church is the only religion that exists, or the only religion that does not believe in same sex marriage for that matter. In South Carolina it was just another church, there to seek shelter from the storm if need be. It wasn't a cultural thing. In the LDS church, whether your parents are gay or not, you still have to have permission to be baptized either way. I'm sorry, but I don't disagree with the church when they say that it might not be in the child's best interest to be baptized into a church that does not support their parents marriage, seeing as this could cause issues in the home and could even result in the child being kicked out of the home. This is something that often happens with gay children who come out to straight parents, which is not something the church supports doing by the way. In my opinion, the church is not shunning these children but rather asking them to wait till they are 18 and can move out in hopes to prevent them from having issues at home. I'd also like to pose the question: do these children of same sex marriages really want to join a church that doesn't support their parents marriage? If they do, well then the church is not asking the children wanting to join the church to disown their parents. They just want them to understand that the church does not support same sex marriages and wants to make sure this is something they support as well before being baptized into a church that believes this. AGAIN, not something you HAVE to do! You do not have to join a church you disagree with! I don't feel children of same sex marriages are being outcast. They are still welcome to attend. But it has always been the churches policy that whether your parents are gay or straight, if your parents disagree with the beliefs of the church, you need to wait until you are of legal age to be baptized in an effort to keep the peace at home. Let's all stop victimizing people who are not being victimized.

If you still disagree. That's ok. We will have to agree to disagree. 

😉❤